SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The final hours of climate change negotiations are underway in Azerbaijan, and countries have struggled to reach an agreement, though it may be close.
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MUKHTAR BABAYEV: Time is not on our side. And I ask you to now step up your engagement with one another to breach the remaining divide.
DETROW: Now, these annual climate summits almost always run into overtime, but this year's talks have been contentious, with some countries walking out. Joining me now with more is Lauren Sommer from NPR's climate desk. Hey, Lauren.
LAUREN SOMMER, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
DETROW: So two weeks of negotiations - what are the big points of - right now of contention?
SOMMER: Yeah, so this summit - it's really all about the money. The debate is over the dollar amount that richer countries will be sending to developing countries that have contributed the least to climate change. And that's for things like reducing their carbon emissions through renewable energy projects or preparing for the impacts of climate-related disasters, like more intense storms.
This is known as climate finance, and it comes directly from wealthier countries, like the U.S. and the European Union. It also comes from the private sector and the World Bank, and developing countries have been pushing for a lot more than richer countries have been willing to deliver.
DETROW: What is the case that development countries have been making for that point of view?
SOMMER: Yeah, so lower-income countries are seeing some of the worst impacts from climate change, you know, the flooding and hurricanes and droughts that are getting worse. They've done little to cause that because their emissions are low. So it's really the wealthier countries that are responsible for most of the emissions. So what developing countries want is $1.3 trillion per year of climate finance by 2035. It may sound like a big number, but here's how Sierra Leone's climate minister Jiwoh Abdulai described it at the talks.
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JIWOH ABDULAI: These numbers are not just abstract. They affect our people on a daily basis. The floods, the droughts, affect the lives of our people. Our people are paying for this climate crisis already with their lives and their livelihoods.
SOMMER: And Abdulai was actually one of the ministers who walked out on negotiations today for a bit, along with some other African countries and small island states. They said, richer countries like the U.S. are not coming to the - close to the amount that the studies show that those countries really need.
DETROW: And Lauren, a couple questions about the U.S. here. First of all, I'm curious what the U.S. position is on funding. And second, the broader question with the Trump administration coming in - is it fair to say the U.S. may not follow through on any of those pledges anyway?
SOMMER: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing here. It's really unclear how much climate finance the U.S. will provide. I mean, if you remember, when Trump was president, he pulled the U.S. out of the major agreement to keep climate change in check. That's the Paris Agreement. He has not wanted the U.S. to be part of this in the past. This year, the Biden administration says it supplied $11 billion in climate finance, but even if Trump undoes that commitment, some funding could continue, like from the World Bank, which the U.S. actually contributes to.
DETROW: Trump was elected for the second term right before these talks. How much did that cast a shadow over negotiations, given that, you know, the world is already behind the previous promises made at COPs?
SOMMER: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think there's no idea - there's no doubt that it had a major impact, right? I mean, at the talks, the Biden administration was trying to make clear that the shift to renewable energy at the U.S. is already underway, and it's going to keep happening. Here's what U.S. climate envoy John Podesta said to other countries.
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JOHN PODESTA: This is not the end of our fight for a clean or safer planet? Facts are still facts. Science is still science. The fight is bigger than one election, one political cycle in one country.
SOMMER: I mean, so far the U.S. has been cutting its carbon emissions, in part because of the Biden administration's flagship climate law. That's the Inflation Reduction Act. There are parts of that that are popular - right? - like consumer tax credits for electric cars and heat pumps, or many of the clean energy manufacturing projects have gone to Republican districts. So there is a chance some of those policies will survive.
I think the biggest question is still coming up. All countries are supposed to announce new pledges to cut emissions by February, and that's to keep the planet in check, you know, from heating up to levels where it sees even worse impacts. And the Biden administration says it still plans to release its new pledge even as it heads out the door.
DETROW: That is Lauren Sommer from NPR's Climate Desk. Lauren, thank you so much.
SOMMER: Yeah, thanks. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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