ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
The agreement that stopped the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah and Lebanon requires Hezbollah fighters to move north away from the border with Israel. Lebanon's government is largely responsible for making sure that happens and for keeping the militant group from rearming, so the relationship between Lebanon's military and Hezbollah is crucial. To explain the dynamic between these two groups, we've reached journalist Kim Ghattas, who has covered Lebanon for decades. Welcome.
KIM GHATTAS: Thanks for having me, Ari - great to be on the show.
SHAPIRO: How would you describe the dynamic between Hezbollah and the Lebanese government? Is it more cooperative, antagonistic, or what is it?
GHATTAS: It's certainly not antagonistic but also not exactly cooperative. Let me explain. Hezbollah is a very powerful militant group and political party that has members in parliament and also members in the Lebanese government. But we have currently only an acting cabinet, acting government. And the Lebanese have been feeling stuck between Hezbollah, establishment of ruling leaders who've been part of the political establishment for many decades, who are also very corrupt. And those two, Hezbollah and the ruling establishment - it's like the omerta of a Mafia. You know, they help each other. They make deals together, and they hold the Lebanese state generally and the Lebanese people and the Lebanese country hostage to those wheelings and dealings.
SHAPIRO: Just as point of comparison, it's very different from the Gaza Strip, where Hamas is the governing body. Hezbollah may have a lot of influence in Lebanon, but the Lebanese government is not synonymous with Hezbollah.
GHATTAS: That is absolutely correct. It is not synonymous of Hezbollah. And also, Lebanon has a very diverse, multiconfessional political system and society.
SHAPIRO: The government of Lebanon is so dysfunctional, with no president, widespread corruption. There's an economic crisis. More than a million people have been displaced by the war over the last year. Ultimately, is the government capable of enforcing this agreement if Hezbollah does not want to comply with it?
GHATTAS: This agreement would not have been achieved if Hezbollah and Iran had not decided it was time to cut their losses, preserve what they could and enter into the ceasefire agreement. So it's not so much that the Lebanese government or the Lebanese army is going to forcibly make Hezbollah do anything. It's that Hezbollah and Iran have agreed to this.
But it does now require application and respect by both sides. Israel also has to respect this agreement, and Israel has been in violation of previous U.N. resolutions in Lebanon for years. But we're not going to see the Lebanese army forcibly disarm Hezbollah or forcibly dismantle their military installations, or what's left of it, south of the Litani River - so close to the border with Israel. It is going to be done by common accord, and that requires international support and regional backing.
SHAPIRO: This conversation is so helpful because one reason I wanted to talk to you was that when the agreement was reached and I was trying to describe the agreement between, is it Israel and Hezbollah, Israel and the Lebanese government, what role does Iran play - you're saying everyone had to be part of it whether or not they are the ones officially signing on the dotted line.
GHATTAS: Absolutely. The Lebanese government approved this in a cabinet session. They are the official guarantors now of this agreement. But, yes, absolutely, all the different players - the monitoring mechanism that has been set in place, which includes the French and the Americans, is also going to be essential to make sure that U.N. Resolution 1701, which was voted in by the U.N. Security Council in 2006 after the last war and was never really implemented - that it is actually implemented this time.
SHAPIRO: For much of the last year, observers said there would never be a ceasefire until the war in Gaza ended. But the war in Gaza rages on, and at least for now there is a ceasefire between Hezbollah and Israel. So what do you think the key is to creating a permanent and lasting end to the fighting?
GHATTAS: Many things have to happen to make this enduring and lasting for people on both sides of the border because people in northern Israel have also had to leave their homes and live under the threat of Hezbollah's rockets. But for the Lebanese, what is going to be key from now is Lebanese internal politics, politicians, opposition, civil society coming together to make clear once and for all to Hezbollah that they are welcome to operate as just another political party. They have members in Parliament, as I said, and in the cabinet. They can be a political party. They represent a large faction of the Shia community, but they do not represent the majority of Lebanese. And so in a way, they have to fall in line now after how they dragged Lebanon into a war that nobody wanted and nobody voted for.
SHAPIRO: That's journalist Kim Ghattas, a native of Beirut and author of the book "Black Wave: Saudi Arabia, Iran And The 40-Year Rivalry That Unraveled Culture, Religion And Collective Memory In The Middle East." Thank you so much.
GHATTAS: Thanks so much for having me, Ari. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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